Houseboat vs Housebarge

A Google search on "Houseboat" will bring up a lot of hits for familiar boats like Gibsons, Holiday Mansion, Summerset, etc and a few for less common manufacturers, BUT it will bring up almost as many hits for floating homes.

Several communities exist on each coast that are comprised of homes that "float" on the water.  I have "float in quotes because some of these don't really float, they are mounted on piers.  Many of these started life as real boats, like fishing vessels, trawlers, or old military craft, but over the years they have been gutted, engines removed, controls disconnected, and frequently bolted to the docks they stay at.  THESE ARE NO LONGER BOATS! They can't be driven, at most they are barges! 

Don't get me wrong, some of these appear to be beautiful homes, but they are a different machine than the Summersets and Gibsons.  Not only are they incapable of moving under their own power, but many are not even easily towed.

I suggest we need to correct our word usage.  These are house barges.  The first line of the Wikipedia entry on "boat" is "A boat is a watercraft of any size designed to float or plane, to provide passage across water." If it can't be rowed, sailed, poled, or motored from point A to point be, it's NOT a boat.

Trying to look up information on houseboats get real annoying when you get hit after hit on Seattle floating homes!

I'm not planning on building a houseboat, and I'd rather avoid any serious remodeling efforts, but for those looking for ideas...

I stumbled across something called the "Tiny House Movement". The idea behind the THM (based on a couple pages I've read, I'm NOT an expert) is that you can simplify your life and not only be "greener", but healthier and happier. While I don't necessarily buy into their philosophy, even in my big cluttered house I see advantages of better storage solution and better utilization of space, and anyone that's stayed on a boat for weekend knows space if at a premium.

I'd suggest the builders and re-modelers check these THM homes out. People are designing and living in homes under 100 sq ft. That would be a cabin area of 8.5 foot x 12 foot. Some of them looking better equiped than my 36 foot Kingscraft!

A couple web sites to get you started:

http://faircompanies.com/

http://youtu.be/juWaO5TJS00

http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

Take a look and let me know what you think. Are any of these ideas applicable to a houseboat remodel? I Kept thinking that these were almost all working in 2 dimensions (except for a few upper sleeping lofts). In a hull type houseboat you also have your lower hull, how could that be better utilized?

Liveaboard Houseboats welcome or not?

This article is from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14690157
I thought is was interesting so soon after I mention conflicts about live aboard boats.


27 August 2011 Last updated at 09:58 ET

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Shapps urges councils to increase houseboat moorings

Grant Shapps said a residential mooring could allow people to live closer to their jobs, family or school

Continue reading the main story

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The government is offering councils financial incentives to allow more moorings for houseboats on waterways.

Housing Minister Grant Shapps says new moorings could be eligible for the New Homes Bonus, which sees the government match council tax from new-build homes.

He says houseboats could allow people to live in areas that otherwise might be out of their financial reach.

The Local Government Association said the incentives were "all well and good" but there were wider housing issues.

'Lease of life'

Mr Shapps said: "Landlords, councils and communities all have a clear incentive to get more mooring sites in their areas.

"Around 15,000 people live on our waterways and many more would like to do so. The government's commitment to localism could be an opportunity for living on boats to be given a new lease of life."

Mr Shapps said the money that councils received from mooring sites could be invested in new marina facilities or waterside recreational activities that everyone could benefit from.

Half the population lives within five miles one of Britain's waterways, while water based recreation and tourism is thought to generate more than £1bn for local economies and support 24,000 jobs, he said.

Mr Shapps said creating more residential long-term moorings could also reduce the number of boats overstaying on the towpaths of canals and waterways.

Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote

An average boat with a decent mooring for sale now rivals any house purchase”

Jenn BBC news website reader

Sally Ash, of British Waterways, said the organisation hoped Mr Shapps's call for more moorings would "alleviate localised congestion along the towpaths".

"We are also pleased to note the reassurance from Mr Shapps' department that people can qualify for housing benefit for help with mooring fees," she said.

An LGA spokesman said it was obviously not opposed to ideas or incentives that gave more people access to housing, but the crux of the problem was that councils needed more powers "to build 21st Century council homes".

"The problem is councils do not have the muscle that they need, the flexibility doesn't exist - the wider issue about housing goes a little deeper," he said.

Alan Wildman, chairman of the Residential Boat Owners' Association (RBOA) said: "Living afloat is arguably the most sustainable, lowest impact way to live, whilst still being able to enjoy 100% of the modern amenities that are available to those who live in conventional housing."

'No moorings'

News website reader Jenn, from Falmouth, Cornwall, told the BBC she had considered living on the water when she moved to Brighton for a new job, but found it very difficult.

"Despite an array of amazing and relatively affordable converted working boats on offer around the country there are no moorings. And an average boat with a decent mooring for sale now rivals any house purchase," she said.

Jenn welcomes more moorings but says they have to be in places that are convenient for people, with services and access available.

"I had to find somewhere to live quite quickly and ended up choosing a place on dry land because there seemed no way I could find a boat and a place to moor it close enough to where I work."

Claire Thompson says living on a houseboat is not quite the cheaper housing solution people think it is

Claire Thompson, from Reading, lives on a houseboat with her family of four.

She told the BBC living on a boat was "great", but the government needed to concentrate on helping those already living on the water.

"We need more moorings, but to serve those already on the water - not to encourage more people to live aboard. They would be better removing the rulings around residential moorings, which would immediately increase the number of moorings," she said.

She added that living on a houseboat "is not quite the cheaper housing solution people think it is".

"Utilities are different, mobile broadband is rubbish, every two years you need to get the boat out of the water to black its bottom.

"Also if I was an awful neighbour, the people on the boats around me could move but they might not be able to throw me off my mooring. There are a lot of things to consider - I don't think that just adding more moorings will help the housing situation," she said.

Ironically, just a couple weeks earlier was this article

16 August 2011 Last updated at 16:38 ET

Houseboat tenants 'forced to move' from Bembridge home

Sue Atkins and Chris Mew say they cannot afford the £110,000 Tristmire wants for the mooring

Continue reading the main story

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A couple who have lived in a houseboat on the Isle of Wight for 20 years say they are being forced to leave their home after they lost a legal bid.

Chris Mew and Sue Atkins live on a converted World War II landing craft in Bembridge Harbour.

The Court of Appeal upheld a county court ruling that their home is not classified as a "dwelling house".

The developer which owns the mooring site says the couple are free to move their boat.

Mr Mew said that option was not open to them as their boat no longer floats and could break up if a crane was used to lift it.

He has been paying an annual rent fee since they moved in, first to the parent company of Bembridge Harbour, where the boat has been positioned for more than 70 years, and more recently to new owner Tristmire Ltd.

Of the 26 other houseboats in the harbour, 21 bought a 99-year lease in 2003.

But Mr Mew and Ms Atkins said they could not afford to buy their plot, which was then bought by Tristmire Ltd along with three other plots.

Waiting for eviction

Tristmire said it had offered to continue letting the sites to the houseboat owners.

But they rejected that and instead argued "that the houseboats had become affixed to the land by annexation and they had the right to remain in them as dwellings under the law relating to houses".

Mr Mew said if he tried to move the houseboat it could break up

The firm said it had no option but to fight that claim in court.

The courts ruled in favour of Tristmire, which can now evict the couple, as they have no protection under the Housing Act.

The firm has now offered to sell long-term lease of the mooring to the couple for £110,000, or they will put it on the market.

Mr Mew said: "I'm retired, Sue's nearly retired and we can't possibly raise that sort of money to do that so we are totally in their hands.

Ms Atkins said: "We've put a lot of work into this and somebody just wants to come and take it off us to make a profit - it's wrong.

"They've left us destitute, it's as simple as that."

In a statement the company said: "The houseboats have always been chattels in the ownership of their owners. That remains the case today and they are free to remove them.

"The sites on which there were moored were not permanently let to or acquired by them and were always in the ownership of the land owner."

Living aboard

Nope, I don't. But when I look at my "houseboat" spark on Google+ It seems a LOT of stuff is out there about live aboard. Much from folks that haven't looked into it. I want to point out a couple problems with living aboard boats. I'm not trying to tell anyone not to try it, heck, if I ever get a chance, I'd try it, but there are a LOT of problems people haven't thought about.

1. Access. Houseboats are on lakes and rivers, maybe a few on bays and channels or canals. Most jobs and stores are in cities and towns. While there are some houseboat locations in or very close to cities and towns, most are some distance. Every time you need to go shopping or go to work, you gotta make that drive.

The drive is just the beginning. Many bodies of water have major fluctuations in water levels. While the houseboat floats, roads don't. Around here (and many other places) you can't reach the houseboat docks during flood season without hitching a ride on a row boat. While this isn't bad on weekends (when the marina generally has folks on staff to shuttle you) it become and issue when you need to work every day. Even if you have your own boat, you need a secure place to leave it where rising water won't wash it away and dropping water won't strand it.

Another problem with access for some people (especially when they get closer to retirement) is that marina docks aren't always the easiest thing to navigate. Parking is usually some distance away. While a trip up and down for the weekend isn't bad, weekly trips to the store (and even worse, back with groceries), increase the problems. Not to mention the ice and often slippery when wet walking surface on both the dock and boat.

2. Parking. Not for your car, but the boat. We've all seen the colorful pictures of the liveaboard houseboats, not to mention the rows and rows of houseboats at the local marina, but the truth of the matter is that not all marinas allow or have the facilities for houseboats. Of those that do, most do not allow live aboards. Even locations with established houseboat live aboard communities are often involved in controversy and lawsuits over whether the community can remain.

In August 2011 Houseboaters in Canada were given notice (link as long as it works here) A search on Google shows similar stories from the UK and US.

Even if you find a marina that allows living aboard, or you own your dock, you then have the issue with utilities. This isn't as much of an issue in the deep south, but in the north and mid-west most marinas cut off water and sewage service when the weather gets cold due to the cost of heating water and sewer lines. Even if you have your own dock, and sewage pumpout, steps will need to be taken to prevent the lines from freezing. As a result, you may very well have to find alternate housing in the winter.

Another parking issue related to winter is ice. In the south, ice isn't usually an issue, but here in the Midwest "bubblers" or other techniques must be used to prevent the boat from getting frozen in. The pressure of the freezing ice can damage the hull as well as the water inlets and submerged ports of the boat. So long as power is available, this works great, but depending on the temperature the water can freeze pretty quickly when the bubbler stops. In very cold areas, the bubbles will not work in fresh water and the only choice is to remove the boat from the water for the winter, once again turning the live aboard into the homeless.

3. Maintenance. Yes, even houses need maintenance, and there's no lawn to work about on a boat, but if you skip maintenance, your house isn't likely to end up at the bottom of the lake. Most houseboats will require occasional hull maintenance that will require paying hundreds to thousands of dollars to haul the boat out of the water, and hundreds to thousands more for scraping/repairing/painting the hull. It turns out that water can be pretty rough on most hull materials, including fiberglass!

If you are planning on your houseboat being mobile (many live aboard houseboats don't have engines) you also have the same maintenance you would need on your car, as well as winterizing to prevent the motor from freezing in the winter.

4. Space. This really depends on your boat. With some of the "super boats" out there these days, you can live in luxury with plenty of room. Of course most of these boats are well outside the price range of most of us. What might be a bit more affordable are the converted barges and trawlers that sometimes pop up. While many of these are roomy, keep in mind that most were decommissioned from their original use because someone thought it wasn't worth keeping them in service.

The house boats most of us can afford tend to run from 33 - 50 feet, maybe up to 65 feet. keep in mind that a substantial part of that space is consumed as a front and back deck, so you're probably looking at closer to 20 - 45 foot long of living space. Most Houseboats in this size range are 10 - 14 foot wide. A few are a bit wider. Once again this is outside hull space, so a few feet are lost to outside walkways, plumbing/power chases, not to mention the width of the walls, etc.

If you look at the blogs and web sites where people are talking about living aboard, a common topic is storage and minimization. To live on the houseboat means using every square inch wisely and eliminating clutter and the un-necessary.

Our modern consumer society is one based on bigger and more. The happy houseboater focusses on what is needed and how small can they get by with.

5. Neighbors. People talk about an advantage of houseboats being the ability to untie and move, but as mentioned above, there's not always somewhere to move. Even if there is, if the boat must be pulled out of the water (can't drive or be towed to the new location), it's possibly thousands of dollars to relocate.

My limited experience is that many houseboaters are jerks. Not all or them, but many. The jerks are the noticeable ones. They are the ones that are always concerned about what every one else is doing. Is your boat clean enough, are you quiet enough, do you participate in dock activities?

In a house you have distance between you and your neighbor. Fences. Most marinas pack boats in with only a narrow walkway between them. If your partner moans during sex, your neighbor knows when you get lucky.

Every dock is different, and I've been told a key to dock happiness is finding a dock you're a good fit with, but as mentioned above, moving to another dock might be expensive!

Like I said in the introduction, I'm not telling anyone to not live aboard. If you think the hassles mentioned above (and I'm sure there are a few I missed) are worth it, then by all means give it a try! Many people do live aboard boats quite happily, and not all of them are huge structures. Many are even more than affordable. But you should enter it as a an informed consumer.

Updated 8/17/11 - Right after I posted this, I stumbled across this article. It's from the UK, but most if not all of the points brought up in the article apply in the states also.

Where did all the houseboats go?

It's strange. When I started looking at houseboats about a month ago (first part of July?) there were a lot of them on the market, and I was amazed at how good some of the deals looked. Granted, I was basing that only on the ads and experience has shown me that a lot of the deals aren't really as nice in person, but there were a lot of boats listed in under 30K range.

Now, I did a Craigslist search and there were only 16 boats listed total?!?!? Throwing out the $100K boats and the steel hulls, there wasn't really much to look at at all. Why? Did everyone sell the boats all of a sudden? Maybe they decided that this late in the summer it wasn't worth it?

It seems to me that if I was selling a boat I would be getting eager about now. Soon you have to pay out the money to winterize. Depending on location, maybe pay for a haul-out and wrap. In many locations, if you don't sell soon, you're stuck with another year of slip rental. It seems to me it would be better to drop you price a couple grand and save the hassle and expense if you could sell now.

Oh well, I'm still broke so it's all academic.

Even though we're still broke, we did stop and look at a boat this weekend. Bass Pro Shops sell the Sun Tracker line of boats which includes a small 32 foot boat.

The cabin part is TINY and actually a bigger issue is it has no generator. That said, at 32 feet it's almost as large as our Kingscraft but much more outside room and less inside and storage space. In it's favor is the fact that it's more recent than many boats we've looked at, aluminum means low maintenance, and pontoons means that worst case you replace a tube. All aluminum floor and most of the superstructure seems to be aluminum. The pontoons along with LOTS of deck space on front and rear means it would actually be more usable as a fishing platform also.

Kay couldn't get in to look, but she said she thought oit might be suitable as a temporary boat until something bigger/better came along. On one hand I hate spending that much money while looking for something bigger and better (they have GREAT resale so we'd be looking at $10k to $30K to buy one today), but on the other, I see some attraction to a smaller boat, especially at current gas prices, and a trailer-able boat would make it easier to look for a marina/lake we like. After the Kingscraft, I suspect it would feel rather cramped though.

Depressed

I hate being broke. Not only years to the houseboat (if it EVER get here) but even the pool. a hundred buck spent on hairdos and another hundred on 2 meals out, but looking aroun d, it looks like we can't afford chlorine and supplies for a freaking tiny swimming pool.

Of course the $60 or $70 fixing the leak in the bathroom didn't help either.

I'm sick of hanging around the house, but the only chance I had to go out was canceled due to a power outage and I can't afford to go anywhere else. Can't even afford a drive or motorcycle ride.

I need a new life.

swimming pool

We can't afford a houseboat yet, so we got a swimming pool. Nope, don't think nice big 5 foot deep beauty, think over grown wading pool. 12 foot diameter and 31 inches deep. Instructions said 30 minutes from box to swimming. 30 MINUTES MY ASS!

I spent over 3 hours assembling the frame/liner part, and had the water hose running full force into it for about 4 hours. It's still not even full enough to turn on the filter!

I can understand that it's hard to estimate the time to do something like build a pool, but 30 minutes?!?! That's just a flat out lie. It's not even possible to FILL the already assembled pool in 30 minutes.

Don't get me wrong. I thought it was ridiculous when I saw it, but the more I think about it the more pissed I get about it. At one time there was at least the pretense of honesty in advertising. Now can we just make any claim we want? Bring on the snake oil!

Other options.

These are options we've thought about, and if we lived somewhere else they might even be considered still, but from St. Louis? Nah...

It's a safe bet that even going bargain, we're looking at $20k to get into a boat. A cheaper boat will need more to get it ready. If the money were available, we'd easily be able to spend 3, 4 or even 10 times that much. Considering that a 2001 Gibson on BoatTrader was listed for $134K and a 1990 model (granted, 3 feet shorter) was only $57,500, there is HIGH depreciation on a houseboat.

A cabin or house on the lake would have less depreciation, would weather storms and such better, and would be usable year round (in our region, most houseboats are only usable in the summer, at least on the lakes) . The cost might be a bit higher than the low end boats, but the better depreciation and easier loans for realestate would make up for that, and resale would be closer to getting your money back. With a house on the lake, a smaller boat or even a jetski could take care of water fun, and a dock off the house could serve as your own marina!

The problem around here is that the population is so high in relation to the recreational facilities, the lake front is expensive, and many lakes have none at all!

Something else we looked at before we bought our last boat was an RV. In our case, a travel trailer. Cheaper than a boat, and it has the advantage that you can move it easier. Many folks around here rent year round or seasonal lots at various lakes and resort areas so they don't have to tow. Before we decided to get another boat, I had even brought this up to Kay since she never seemed that thrilled about the lake anyway. The RV would give us a bit more options.

The problems with the RV route is that with gas at $4 a gallon (or at least threatening) we wouldn't be able to drive a motorhome, or even pull a trailer often, and frankly, most of the parks we looked at were over crowded and noisy. Not what I want for a weekend. A trailer would require a bigger car (truck) than we have, so unless we keep a car only for towing (EXPENSIVE) we would be paying through the nose for our daily commute (EXPENSIVE). If we had some land on a nice secluded lake, a trailer parked there long term might be an option, but see above. There ain't those lakes round here.

But we decided on the houseboat. In some ways, I wish we hadn't, because 3 years is a LONG time to wait, but at least I have time to research the market and options. It is real frustrating when those great deals come drifting by and you don't have the ability to act on them. At least with trailers there are places around here I can go look at them and window shop, but most of the boats require at least a short road trip, and many require setting up appointments to see, which make me feel kind of guilty since I know I can't buy at the moment, and what are the odds of any boat for sale now, being on the market in 3 years? I think it's made worse by this oppressive heat wave the midwest is gripped in. Everytime the heat hits me I think of floating beside the boat in the nice cool water, or sitting in the AC watching my fishing pole on the deck.

What are my odds on the lottery??????????

My Kingscraft

I thought I should post a photo of our boat. We sold it for $8000 dollars because we needed to sell it before we ran up another years of slip rental. With 20/20 hind sight, we should have sold it as scrap metal and would probably have made more.
When we sold it we included a Honda EU3000IS generator that cost between $2000 and $3000 so I guess we really sold the boat for $5-6000. Makes me kind of sick now. Don't get me wrong, it was an old boat and could do with a complete remodel and new AC, but the motor ran, it stayed relatively cool even on the hottest days of the summer, and didn't have a leak. Why don't I ever find deals like that when I buy something??

I hope the people that bought it appreciate the deal they got.

Group

21 views in a week. I thought no one was reading it. If anyone is interested in houseboat stuff, I have a new houseboat group on Yahoo. NO SPAM ALLOWED!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/everymanshouseboat/

It's called Everymans Houseboat because I wanted a forum for those of us that don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on a boat. Sure, I'd love Al Gore's 100+ foot boat, but my budget wouldn't pay the gas on that monster. Does that mean I'm out of the game? Nope. I sold a great 33 foot Kingscraft for less that $10,000 that was a turn key boat. We used it up to the point we had some problems and had to sell.

The group is dead right now, but it's a VERY new group (4 members?) and summer is usually a dead time for boat groups. The folks with boats tend to be playing with the boats, not the computer. Join me!

Been looking at ads for houseboats, and discovered that sometime between when we bought the last one and now, people decided to start calling them "yachts". OK, granted, there is an area that is grey. A 150 foot luxury vessel with swimming pool and marble jacuzzi probably is as much yacht as houseboat, but a 30 foot 40 year old Nautiline????

So I search for "Yacht". Even bass boats and cuddy cabins are coming up! FOLKS, A 16 FOOT BASS BOAT IS NOT A YACHT!!

BUT that and a couple other things I stumbled across have made me wonder if maybe I should be looking at cruisers or even sail boats. Kay (the wife), insists that if I get a cruiser or sail boat I'll be going by myself, but she hasn't looked at these. At least from the pictures (which can be misleading, I know) some of these seem to rival the older houseboats. As an added advantage, they seem to run cheaper, so I can look at newer and/or larger vessels.

Granted, a 36 foot cruiser won't have the space of a 36 foot houseboat, but some of them look like the interior is close, and in the heat of the summer, I'm the only one that will go outside anyway! While I tend to be a leisurely cruiser, it would be nice to know that if I need to beat a storm in to the dock I have the capacity for speed. Also many of the cruisers can handle rougher water and even open water, so maybe if I ever get to retire the boat could go to the gulf with me??

Even smaller would be the sailboats, but even these seem surprisingly roomy from the photos. At $5 + a gallon for gas at most marinas, a trip down the lake in a houseboat or even cruiser can be an expensive proposition, but the wind is free! Even if you travel under power, the sleek design or the sailboat combined with generally small motors would make an afternoon cruise much more affordable.

Is it worth the reduction in space? Can Kay be convinced to even look?

Houseboat

I don't remember if I blogged about it before, but we used to have a houseboat. A 33 foot Kingscraft.  Unfortunately, we had to let it go, at a fraction of what out was worth, due to some financial issues.

Well, in about 3 years our finances should be cleared up, and we're considering another boat.  If I had their phone number, I'd be tempted to contact the people that bought the old boat and see if they wanted to sell it back.

At any easy, I've been looking on the internet at boat stuff (call it market research).  I've made several discoveries:

Most of the forums and groups that I visited when we were looking for the last boat have been taken over by spam. There were lots of activity on them in the past, but now they're worthless. Did everyone give up on forums? Is there a new medium I don't know about? I started a new forum, but my history with forums doesn't make me confident.

While there are some gems out there, there is a lot of crap on the market. I'm seeing a lot of boats on Ebay that aren't getting a single bid. Out may be a good time to but. To bad I don't have the money yet.